More challenges came from my friend, who insists The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is not Christian. He still sees the church as teaching that people can "earn" their way to heaven.
This could not be further from the truth. Without the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ, obedience yields nothing!
Yet, a thought came to me today. If Jesus endured the torturous ordeal of Gethsemane through Golgotha, more than man could suffer, could we not accept of this wonderful, merciful atonement by simply obeying his commandments? The scales of judgment are thus eternally tipped in our favor. He has done for us what we could not do for ourselves: make a way to overcome sin and death. King Benjamin explains this uneven arrangement in his speech in the first few chapters of Mosiah, saying that every time we obey God, he rewards us so abundantly that we are eternally indebted to him. Jesus proclaimed that he came "not to destroy, but to fulfill." He came to do what had been prophesied and looked to for centuries, for millenia. He came to cleanse us from all iniquity. This would require active faith on our part. In Leviticus, where Christ's atonement was foreshadowed in animal sacrifice, the children of Israel were required to do certain things to receive forgiveness for their sins. If a person touched or ate an animal that died on its own, that person was unclean. Yet, if he washed himself and his clothes, he would become clean by evening. "But if he wash them not, nor bathe his flesh; then he shall bear his iniquity" (Levitcus 17:16). Without physically going through this physical washing, the person would remain unclean.
Though Christ had no need of baptism, "he showeth unto the children of men that, according to the flesh he humbleth himself before the Father, and witnesseth unto the Father that he would be obedient unto him in keeping his commandments" (2 Nephi 31:4-7). Christ was without spot, and therefore had no sin that needed to be washed away. Nevertheless, he was baptized to show us that being obedient to God was paramount. After Christ's atonement, sacrifice by the shedding of blood ended. We are now commanded to bring forth the sacrifice of a broken heart and a contrite spirit, to receive of the atoning blood of Jesus Christ. "Behold, he offereth himself a sacrifice for sin, to answer the ends of the law, unto all those who have a broken heart and a contrite spirit; and unto none else can the ends of the law be answered" (2 Nephi 2:7). If we only seek our own will, is our heart really broken and our spirit truly contrite?
Submission to God does not "earn" us a spot in heaven, it simply opens our hearts to receive the grace and mercy he has so benevolently bestowed upon us by the merits of his son. Except for this magnificent atonement, we could not repent and turn to God, we would be lost forever. When we obey the commandment to lose our lives for Christ's sake, we will find ourselves with God in the end.
Sunday, August 21, 2011
Sunday, August 14, 2011
response to Todd's comments on the posting below
Todd,
You make a very good point. This is something that my friend struggles with--stepping out of his paradigm to attempt to understand another's. I am amazed at how people will not acknowledge that there are different ways to read the Bible, a fact that Joseph Smith pointed out very succinctly in his history. Why are there so many different denominations(and denominations within denominations) that all profess a belief in the same book? I don't want to spend time pointing out contradictions in the Bible; I think it is actually fairly succinct. If take this avenue, then people feel like we devalue the Bible. My friend says that our church views the Bible as "flawed." I love the Bible, and am grateful that we have this miraculous record.
I tried to explain Joseph Smith's inspired revisions in this way: If I tell something to Bill, you could either ask Bill what I said or ask me directly what I told Bill. God told Joseph Smith the real intent of certain Biblical verses. God confirms the truth to us, concerning what he has revealed to Joseph Smith. This is our ultimate source of truth; we do not have to be limited to physical signs of truth, in line with what Jesus told Thomas.
In the end; my only desire is that people respect what we believe, and only declare what they believe to be true, without feeling a need to tear down the faith of others. If what you belive is true, you only need declare it--others will be drawn to it. Thanks again for your comment, Todd. Hope you and your family are well.
You make a very good point. This is something that my friend struggles with--stepping out of his paradigm to attempt to understand another's. I am amazed at how people will not acknowledge that there are different ways to read the Bible, a fact that Joseph Smith pointed out very succinctly in his history. Why are there so many different denominations(and denominations within denominations) that all profess a belief in the same book? I don't want to spend time pointing out contradictions in the Bible; I think it is actually fairly succinct. If take this avenue, then people feel like we devalue the Bible. My friend says that our church views the Bible as "flawed." I love the Bible, and am grateful that we have this miraculous record.
I tried to explain Joseph Smith's inspired revisions in this way: If I tell something to Bill, you could either ask Bill what I said or ask me directly what I told Bill. God told Joseph Smith the real intent of certain Biblical verses. God confirms the truth to us, concerning what he has revealed to Joseph Smith. This is our ultimate source of truth; we do not have to be limited to physical signs of truth, in line with what Jesus told Thomas.
In the end; my only desire is that people respect what we believe, and only declare what they believe to be true, without feeling a need to tear down the faith of others. If what you belive is true, you only need declare it--others will be drawn to it. Thanks again for your comment, Todd. Hope you and your family are well.
Wednesday, August 10, 2011
interfaith dialogue
Today, I was told that the church and faith that I hold to be true are of the deceptions of the devil, "counterfeit Christianity." Needless to say I was a bit taken aback. The person telling me this did so out of sincerity. I have seen his Christian walk, and how he has looks out for me, and even prays for me. So I know that he does not make this accusation as a personal attack against me. He said that what he has heard me say fills in the gaps where my church is wrong. That makes me think: have I said something that is out of line with the doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints? I desire to tell him that, to my knowledge, I have said nothing that has been out of line with my faith.
Leading up to this exchange, we have had dialogue on where he has concerns with LDS doctrine, the authenticity of the Book of Mormon--which he says contradicts what is in the Bible. In good faith, as he has expressed desires to learn more about my faith, I have cited many scriptures, but to no avail. We come from two different paradigms. He insists that I am misled, that the historical and contextual evidence does not support what Joseph Smith claimed, that they are out of alignment with what is in the Bible.
I have pondered on this thought: could the Book of Mormon be misinterpreted as the Bible has? I think it would be difficult--hence its coming forth in our day--but still possible. Consider the concept of the Godhead, the Trinity. This one I think could definitely be misunderstood in a way that aligns with a 4th Century conception of the Trinity (Council of Nicea), one that declares that Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are physically the same being. Nephi states that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are "one God without end" (2 Nephi 31:21). Mormon refers to the trinity in similar terms, "the Father, ... the Son, and... the Holy Ghost, which are one God...(Mormon 7:7). Jesus declares in 2 Nephi 28:10, "the Father and I are one." This echoes what is recorded in the Bible: "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord," (Deut 6:4), and "God is one"(Gal 3:20).
God be thanked that he has given us prophets in our day. Doctrine and Covenants 130:22 boldly declares: "The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us."
With this light and knowledge, we understand more clearly the nature and character of God revealed through the scriptures. God validates his holy Son, speaking from the heavens at his baptism and at his transfiguration. Jesus prays to his father and teaches people to pray to his Father. He does his Father's will "in all things from the beginning" (3 Nephi 11:11). With the revelation given to Joseph Smith everything aligns. Mosiah 15:1-9 contains a masterful explanation of the Godhead. I include it here. Abinadi is preaching to false priests and a king who will later burn him at the stake for testifying of the Son of God, Jesus Christ. Yet, he is first permitted to declare the truth unto them.
1 And now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand that God himself shall come down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people.
2 And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son—
3 The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son—
4 And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth.
5 And thus the flesh becoming subject to the Spirit, or the Son to the Father, being one God, suffereth temptation, and yieldeth not to the temptation, but suffereth himself to be mocked, and scourged, and cast out, and disowned by his people.
6 And after all this, after working many mighty miracles among the children of men, he shall be led, yea, even as Isaiah said, as a sheep before the shearer is dumb, so he opened not his mouth.
7 Yea, even so he shall be led, crucified, and slain, the flesh becoming subject even unto death, the will of the Son being swallowed up in the will of the Father.
8 And thus God breaketh the bands of death, having gained the victory over death; giving the Son power to make intercession for the children of men—
9 Having ascended into heaven, having the bowels of mercy; being filled with compassion towards the children of men; standing betwixt them and justice; having broken the bands of death, taken upon himself their iniquity and their transgressions, having redeemed them, and satisfied the demands of justice.
In the end, when people challenge our faith, we must remain firm and stead fast, yet respond with charity. Any challenge to our faith holds up by simply studying the words that God has given us. We will come across seeming contradictions, yes. Yet we must remember 2 things. These apparent contradictions (usually revealed by trying to fit God into our limited, mortal paradigm) will not outweigh core doctrines that are found in no other church (modern day revelation (actual scripture), eternal nature of family, redemptive ordinances for the dead--all of which center on the atonement of Jesus Christ). This first fact sustains us as we, over time, gain an enlightened understanding that clears up the contradiction.
If the contradiction, to our mere mortal understanding, remains, we declare with Mormon: "And now, I do not know all things; but the Lord knoweth all things which are to come; wherefore, he worketh in me to do according to his will" (Words of Mormon 1:7). We also echo Nephi's sentiment. In a vision where he was asked about the meaning of the condescension of God, he remarked, "I know that he loveth his children; nevertheless, I do not know the meaning of all things" (2 Nephi 11:17). Isaiah said it best: "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts" (Isaiah 55:8-9).
Humbly, we plant the seed of faith in our hearts, as Alma admonished us to do in Alma 32. Then, we water in and nourish it, and see the fruit of these efforts. We feel the Holy Ghost bear witness to the truth that we have planted in faith, and we see how it blesses our lives as we draw closer to Christ.
When others seek to tear down the faith that we hold to be true, we can only respond out of love. We must remember that Christ died being told that he was a counterfeit messiah (a counterfeit Christian?). He was marginalized and crucified in place of a treasonous criminal. He was beaten, spat upon, mocked, and martyred; all because he said that he was the Son of God, and "went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him" (Acts 10:38). His triumph was not found in debate, in proving others wrong (though he did so masterfully); his triumph was in complete submission to the will of his Father, in the which he wrought salvation for all who would repent and follow him. This he did in suffering and death, to atone for the sins of all humanity.
When others seek to undermine what we believe, we must remember that Christ bore all accusations (lawbreaking, treason, blasphemy), and at times not opening his mouth. He set the standard when he said of his executioners, under excruciating pain on the cross, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do" (Luke 23:24). The climax of the beatitudes says: "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you" (Matt 5:44). We should thank God for opportunities as these, to become more like his Son has invited us to be. The verses that follow are instructive:
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
I do not feel perfect love for the person that even said to me today: "Have you thought about why the Mormons were kicked out of the country?" Wow. It would be easy to take offense at this. I am still angered by it. This person has no idea what the early saints and pioneers went through because of their faith, being burned out of house and home, evicted in the dead of winter, being driven from place to place, suffering brutal mob attacks and an extermination order. The only solace they found was in a barren desert in the mountains of the west.
This is a challenge indeed, to treat with kindness someone who has been very insensitive in seeking to tear down my faith. In closing, please pray for me, that I will remember:
46 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, if ye have not charity, ye are nothing, for charity never faileth. Wherefore, cleave unto charity, which is the greatest of all, for all things must fail—
47 But charity is the pure love of Christ, and it endureth forever; and whoso is found possessed of it at the last day, it shall be well with him.
48 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, pray unto the Father with all the energy of heart, that ye may be filled with this love, which he hath bestowed upon all who are true followers of his Son, Jesus Christ; that ye may become the sons of God; that when he shall appear we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is; that we may have this hope; that we may be purified even as he is pure. Amen (Moroni 7:46-48).
Leading up to this exchange, we have had dialogue on where he has concerns with LDS doctrine, the authenticity of the Book of Mormon--which he says contradicts what is in the Bible. In good faith, as he has expressed desires to learn more about my faith, I have cited many scriptures, but to no avail. We come from two different paradigms. He insists that I am misled, that the historical and contextual evidence does not support what Joseph Smith claimed, that they are out of alignment with what is in the Bible.
I have pondered on this thought: could the Book of Mormon be misinterpreted as the Bible has? I think it would be difficult--hence its coming forth in our day--but still possible. Consider the concept of the Godhead, the Trinity. This one I think could definitely be misunderstood in a way that aligns with a 4th Century conception of the Trinity (Council of Nicea), one that declares that Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are physically the same being. Nephi states that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are "one God without end" (2 Nephi 31:21). Mormon refers to the trinity in similar terms, "the Father, ... the Son, and... the Holy Ghost, which are one God...(Mormon 7:7). Jesus declares in 2 Nephi 28:10, "the Father and I are one." This echoes what is recorded in the Bible: "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord," (Deut 6:4), and "God is one"(Gal 3:20).
God be thanked that he has given us prophets in our day. Doctrine and Covenants 130:22 boldly declares: "The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us."
With this light and knowledge, we understand more clearly the nature and character of God revealed through the scriptures. God validates his holy Son, speaking from the heavens at his baptism and at his transfiguration. Jesus prays to his father and teaches people to pray to his Father. He does his Father's will "in all things from the beginning" (3 Nephi 11:11). With the revelation given to Joseph Smith everything aligns. Mosiah 15:1-9 contains a masterful explanation of the Godhead. I include it here. Abinadi is preaching to false priests and a king who will later burn him at the stake for testifying of the Son of God, Jesus Christ. Yet, he is first permitted to declare the truth unto them.
1 And now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand that God himself shall come down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people.
2 And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son—
3 The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son—
4 And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth.
5 And thus the flesh becoming subject to the Spirit, or the Son to the Father, being one God, suffereth temptation, and yieldeth not to the temptation, but suffereth himself to be mocked, and scourged, and cast out, and disowned by his people.
6 And after all this, after working many mighty miracles among the children of men, he shall be led, yea, even as Isaiah said, as a sheep before the shearer is dumb, so he opened not his mouth.
7 Yea, even so he shall be led, crucified, and slain, the flesh becoming subject even unto death, the will of the Son being swallowed up in the will of the Father.
8 And thus God breaketh the bands of death, having gained the victory over death; giving the Son power to make intercession for the children of men—
9 Having ascended into heaven, having the bowels of mercy; being filled with compassion towards the children of men; standing betwixt them and justice; having broken the bands of death, taken upon himself their iniquity and their transgressions, having redeemed them, and satisfied the demands of justice.
In the end, when people challenge our faith, we must remain firm and stead fast, yet respond with charity. Any challenge to our faith holds up by simply studying the words that God has given us. We will come across seeming contradictions, yes. Yet we must remember 2 things. These apparent contradictions (usually revealed by trying to fit God into our limited, mortal paradigm) will not outweigh core doctrines that are found in no other church (modern day revelation (actual scripture), eternal nature of family, redemptive ordinances for the dead--all of which center on the atonement of Jesus Christ). This first fact sustains us as we, over time, gain an enlightened understanding that clears up the contradiction.
If the contradiction, to our mere mortal understanding, remains, we declare with Mormon: "And now, I do not know all things; but the Lord knoweth all things which are to come; wherefore, he worketh in me to do according to his will" (Words of Mormon 1:7). We also echo Nephi's sentiment. In a vision where he was asked about the meaning of the condescension of God, he remarked, "I know that he loveth his children; nevertheless, I do not know the meaning of all things" (2 Nephi 11:17). Isaiah said it best: "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts" (Isaiah 55:8-9).
Humbly, we plant the seed of faith in our hearts, as Alma admonished us to do in Alma 32. Then, we water in and nourish it, and see the fruit of these efforts. We feel the Holy Ghost bear witness to the truth that we have planted in faith, and we see how it blesses our lives as we draw closer to Christ.
When others seek to tear down the faith that we hold to be true, we can only respond out of love. We must remember that Christ died being told that he was a counterfeit messiah (a counterfeit Christian?). He was marginalized and crucified in place of a treasonous criminal. He was beaten, spat upon, mocked, and martyred; all because he said that he was the Son of God, and "went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him" (Acts 10:38). His triumph was not found in debate, in proving others wrong (though he did so masterfully); his triumph was in complete submission to the will of his Father, in the which he wrought salvation for all who would repent and follow him. This he did in suffering and death, to atone for the sins of all humanity.
When others seek to undermine what we believe, we must remember that Christ bore all accusations (lawbreaking, treason, blasphemy), and at times not opening his mouth. He set the standard when he said of his executioners, under excruciating pain on the cross, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do" (Luke 23:24). The climax of the beatitudes says: "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you" (Matt 5:44). We should thank God for opportunities as these, to become more like his Son has invited us to be. The verses that follow are instructive:
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
I do not feel perfect love for the person that even said to me today: "Have you thought about why the Mormons were kicked out of the country?" Wow. It would be easy to take offense at this. I am still angered by it. This person has no idea what the early saints and pioneers went through because of their faith, being burned out of house and home, evicted in the dead of winter, being driven from place to place, suffering brutal mob attacks and an extermination order. The only solace they found was in a barren desert in the mountains of the west.
This is a challenge indeed, to treat with kindness someone who has been very insensitive in seeking to tear down my faith. In closing, please pray for me, that I will remember:
46 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, if ye have not charity, ye are nothing, for charity never faileth. Wherefore, cleave unto charity, which is the greatest of all, for all things must fail—
47 But charity is the pure love of Christ, and it endureth forever; and whoso is found possessed of it at the last day, it shall be well with him.
48 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, pray unto the Father with all the energy of heart, that ye may be filled with this love, which he hath bestowed upon all who are true followers of his Son, Jesus Christ; that ye may become the sons of God; that when he shall appear we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is; that we may have this hope; that we may be purified even as he is pure. Amen (Moroni 7:46-48).
Sunday, August 7, 2011
A good meeting
SSG Morales gave the message during our meeting today. He talked about faith, and his own faith journey. He quoted his father, who was quoting someone else: “It is a lot easier to deny the unknown than to recognize our ignorance.” He quoted Joseph Smith, who said, “Faith is the principle of action and power.” SSG Morales, an avid gym-rat, said, “faith is like a muscle; [it gets stronger when we exercise it].” He quoted Richard G. Scott: “Faith and character are intimately related….One serious act of disobedience breaks trust and undermines our character.”
A few scriptures quoted by SSG Morales:
Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Alma 32:21 And now as I said concerning faith—faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things; therefore if ye have faith ye hope for things which are not seen, which are true.
Ether 12:6 And now, I, Moroni, would speak somewhat concerning these things; I would show unto the world that faith is things which are hoped for and not seen; wherefore, dispute not because ye see not, for ye receive no witness until after the trial of your faith.
After SSG Morales’ message, Roger, then I, bore testimonies. Though there were only 5 of us in attendance, the Spirit was very present during the meeting; we all felt the love of God, and of each other. We all expressed gratitude for the opportunity to meet together in remembrance of the atonement of Jesus Christ, to give thanks to God for the gift of his Son.
I remember thinking how glad I was that we get to hear from members of the congregation during our church meetings. These are opportunities for members to express their faith in a very personal way, for the benefit of all, as all come from different walks of life. God speaks through all of us, if we will yield to the promptings of the Holy Ghost. I was glad SSG Morales shared his inspired message; we never know how long each of us gets to stay put. Our Alamo support chaplain just got transferred to another base.
Glad to be here at Alamo; life is good. Have a blessed Sunday, a wonderful day of rest.
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